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« on: August 12, 2009, 02:10:39 PM » |
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Charles Manson and his cult murdered a number of people in Hollywood 40 years ago last Sunday. They are all still incarcerated as they weren't executed due to the abolition of the death penalty in their state of jurisdiction, shortly after their capture. It brought up a debate amongst my friends and I about the death penalty and whether or not we support it.
I am against it as I think it is unethical to murder someone, state sponsored or otherwise. The family of the murderer suffers when the inmate is on death row and I consider this unjust emotional torture for those innocent family members. Additionally, most murderers when released do not go on to commit further murders, so executing them because they cannot be rehabilitated is a fallacy. As a deterrent its efficacy is also debatable and many studies show it is not effective.
In my opinion the death penalty is all about revenge. I consider it unethical and unnecessary and reflects poorly on any country which endorses it.
What are your opinions on this subject?
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Mickey
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 02:28:38 PM » |
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The family of the murderer suffers when the inmate is on death row and I consider this unjust emotional torture for those innocent family members.
But when you put the murderer in jail for 30 years, this induces suffering for the family too. Additionally, most murderers when released do not go on to commit further murders
What do you mean by "most"? 51%? 99%? It would be interesting to have more accurate numbers. What is sure is that 0% of executed guys don't commit murders again, so in this matter, death penalty seems more efficient. |
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TaxGuy
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 02:36:00 PM » |
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Hmmmm,
Does nobody throw into the equation the suffering of the victims family.......err y'know - the one that these "victims on death row" murdered in the first place. They carried out a crime and knew what they were doing....if they do not value others lives...why should we value theirs?
How would you feel if your daughter was raped - would you then support castration.......or is this cruel and inhumane in case the rapist is freed from prison in the future, meets a girl, and wants to settle down and have a family of his own to interfere with???
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TalkMunichAdmin
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 02:37:37 PM » |
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When polled, nearly all families of death row inmates said they would prefer their relative to have an alternative punishment to execution. 30 years in jail for their relative is preferable to watching them suffer the emotional anguish of being on death row and then being executed.
I forgot to mention that there have been many cases of innocent people being put to death. I would ask that you put yourself in the shoes of someone about to be executed for a crime they did not commit. How does that feel?
Regarding the comment about convicted murderers who go on to murder again once released, then the vetting of these prisoners needs to be tightened up. The death penalty could theoretically be used on a murderer when it saves innocent lives, but only when all other possible options are exhausted and there is irrefutable evidence the murderer is likely to offend again. Are you sure Mickey that killing them is the only way to safeguard the public? Would you be willing to carry out the execution to prove your belief in this dark ages punishment?
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TalkMunichAdmin
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 02:43:17 PM » |
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Justice is not revenge and that is why lynch mobs are outlawed.
The victims families are removed from the legal process for a reason, because their emotional state is not usually capable of impartial punishment of the crime's perpetrator.
Sure we would all want to exact revenge on someone who hurt someone we loved, but we have a legal system to try to ensure that the families have justice, whilst at the same time keeping our society humane. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Furthermore, what you are proposing sounds a little like Sharia Law. An eye for an eye and all that sounds a little more revenge-orientated and less justice-orientated.
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Mickey
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 02:46:51 PM » |
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How would you feel if your daughter was raped
Guys, we are speaking on a theoretical point of view, don't make it personal. It is so shocking that I don't know how I would react. Would you be willing to carry out the execution to prove your belief in this dark ages punishment?
Personal and shocking again. If you support life sentence, would you spend the rest of your life as a prison guard to look after criminals? |
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Boomboom
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 02:48:40 PM » |
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No need to debate this as the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of a ban on the death penalty. Only three developed countries support it, Singapore, Japan and the USA. The Sharia Law comment sums up the argument against the death penalty, in that it is an outdated form of punishment that is wrong on so many levels that only lesser developed countries employ it.
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TalkMunichAdmin
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 02:51:24 PM » |
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If you support life sentence, would you spend the rest of your life as a prison guard to look after criminals?
No, I pay taxes to employ people to do this work. You did not answer my question though. Would you be willing to execute a prisoner? |
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TaxGuy
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 02:52:36 PM » |
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No - that is not my point.
How sick would you be paying out of your taxes to support the very same people that killed your family. Why should any of us have to carry a 30 year tax burden for a murderer? Prison systems costs us socially responsible people a HUGE HUGE amount in tax every year - so no i am not a big fan. And you honestly think that those released in the USA can be controlled etc........like to see some facts on that.
Maybe there is a more humane way of killing these people faster so less agonising for the families.
Take the point as for the odd innocent killed by mistake (the US are very good at this -ask any British Soldier)
but then take a stock of how many innocent people have been murdered on the streets, or in their own homes, and i think that you would see that it is a very small margin indeed.
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Mickey
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 02:53:35 PM » |
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If you support life sentence, would you spend the rest of your life as a prison guard to look after criminals?
No, I pay taxes to employ people to do this work. You did not answer my question though. Would you be willing to execute a prisoner? No, I pay taxes to employ people to do this work. |
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TalkMunichAdmin
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 03:03:35 PM » |
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Tax is there for a reason. You take the good with the bad. As part of a society you need to take the slack from those people who abuse the system. Not very nice, granted, but what is the alternative, a diluted form of Sharia Law (for arguments sake)? I like to think I live in a society more enlightened than this and thankfully I do.
You can tell a lot about a society by how it treats its criminals. Executing them is a primitive form of treatment and as Boomboom says, the evidence speaks for itself, i.e. fewer and fewer countries support the death penalty.
It is unethical, irrespective of the emotional requests for revenge. Not one of your arguments concerns justice.
Ah, whereas I pay taxes to employ someone to try (I said try) to rehabilitiate criminals, Mickey pays taxes so someone can execute another human being. I think we are coming from very different corners on this issue. Plus you are muddying the water. I am referring to taking a life, not a career choice.
If you are unable to take someone else's life, then it reflects poorly on you if you instead get someone else to do it for you. State murder has no place in a civilised society, hence why most countires in the world do not support it.
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Mickey
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 03:09:46 PM » |
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Mary
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2009, 03:11:58 PM » |
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If even one person is executed wrongly, then the death penalty should be stopped. The death of 1000 evil people is not worth even the death of one good person.
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TalkMunichAdmin
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2009, 03:16:55 PM » |
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I disagree, why offer them death as an escape from the responsibility of their crimes? Let them live and serve their punishment under the people they hurt.
Again though, you guys are missing the detachment of justice from revenge. Just because someone deserves to be murdered, does not mean we should do just that. For many reasons, execution is the quick knee-jerk reaction that some people want, but it is not the right one. We should have more respect in ourselves than to go down the route of medieval punishment.
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Mickey
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 03:18:29 PM » |
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Just because someone deserves to be murdered, does not mean we should do just that.
Why? |
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