Pirates from Somalia - is the solution not obvious?

[bigwig]

Yet again the Americans go in with guns blazing.  Fair enough, the situation over the weekend where the pirates had captured the captain of a goods ship may have warranted a military response, but was it the right solution?

Surely the way to deal with the problem of Somalia's pirates is to address the underlying cause of it.  Bring stability to Somalia itself and let their government end the piracy.  I know this is not an easy thing to do and America has already been burnt in the early 90's in Somalia.  Surely though something needs to be done.  It is a disgrace that the situation there has been going on for so long and nothing is being done to stop it.

I am sure the CIA is involved in trying to setup a non-Islamist government and bringing Ethiopia into the equation, but I think more should be done officially and not in the cloak and dagger way which seems to be happening now.

Is there no solution for Somalia?

[Brandon]

Sounds good, because everytime the west tries to intervene and bring stability to a nation it always ends in happiness and sunshine and everyone agreeing on a job well done.

Oh wait, my mistake that never happens. Can anyone think of an example in recent history when the west have intervened in the affairs of an African or Asian nation that hasn't resulted in a gigantic cluster fuck?

Only one way to sort the pirates out:

Ignore them. They are just after the ransom, they cannot use the boat itself. If no one pays them there will be no profit in them doing it.

[Anakin12]

Ignoring won't work because the ransom is only a part of it.  The cargo on these boats can be sold on the black market.  They also probably enjoy doing it.
The only solution is to forget 'Black Hawk Down' and go back in and kick Somali ass.  Install a civilized government and then, and only then, will the piracy issue be resolved.

[Brandon]

But again to re-iterate my point above, when has kicking ass and installing a government actually worked out in these regions of the world?

Getting the ships and the cargo is not the aim for these guys. Trying to sell them off is very high risk and low profit. Firstly they have to get the ship to a friendly harbour and they may not have the man power or technical know-how to pilot the ship.

Then they have to get large quatities of goods off the boat and into a distribution network whilst keeping themself concieled. Hostages are of no use whilst trying to fence goods and as soon as they are on land they are very vunerable to arrest.

The profit in this is in ransoming the hostages and the boat and cargo to the owner. Don't pay the ransoms and they lose their purpose.

[Anakin12]

Brandon, Brandon, Brandon.
I guess you are not that well versed in these sorts of things.  I don't mean to be offensive, I am just trying to help educate you. 

Installing a new government has always worked.  Look at Iraq.  They have peace now and a high quality of life because of us.  Somalia is begging us to do the same for them.  The pirates are like dogs that require a firm hand and a little bit of discipline.  All this wishy-washy, let's cut off their reasons for crime nonsense, only works in a lefties most optimistic dreams.  The reality is that force works.  A swift kick up the ass and they respect you for it and actually want it.

We go in, kick ass, install a new democratic goverment (elected by us) and everyone is happy.  Why do you want to prolong the misery of the people of Somalia when the solution is so quick and obvious?

[Brandon]

Your being sarcastic now. Am I right?

[bigwig]

This is getting interesting.

What is really interesting is the way that the USA is watching from the sidelines on Somalia.  They are actually afraid to intervene after the fiasco of their gung-ho attempt to kidnap some warlords in Mogadishu in the mid-nineties.

The question is, where do these Rangers and special forces guys get their training?  Does Bruce Willis personally see to it, by narrating to them his tactics while watching a few die hard movies.  Or do they use someone like Arny in Terminator, or Commando?  I know, John Rambo movies.  That has to be it.  i feel sorry for the American soldiers who have lived their secure lives and are then thrown out into the real world, where the enemy has nothing to lose, is fitter, more ruthless and more competent than they are.  What a rude awakening for those poor guys.  Hey, at least the US forces can just carpet bomb the place so there is no real fighting and their incompetency is not apparent, eh!

[ThunderRod]

Calm down a little on the sarcasm.
The solution to the piracy is quite obviously to stabilise the country.  Even as foreign navies capture the pirates they are having to hand them over to Kenya where they will be tried under a foreign government's judicial system.  I know piracy is an international crime and hence there might be special rules and ways to deal with pirates legally, but still the issue remains as to why it exists to such a large degree in Somalia.

Sort out the political/civil mess there and then progress can be made on the piracy front.  Any other 'solution' is just fire-fighting and not actually tackling the root cause.

[Anakin12]

Ha ha at PigWig

The CIA is obviously working covertly in Somalia to change the situation.  It was on the news that Somali fishermen rounded up pirates and handed them over to the authorities.  Do you think it was their idea to do this?  Do you think they found some guns themselves and hunted down the pirates (who have speedboats) in the small fishing crafts?  No no and no again.  There is a secret war going on and if you read between the lines you can see exactly what is happening.

[Mickey]

 My personal opinion: stop trying to "stabilize" Somalia, let them stabilize themself and choose their government, let them be islamist if they want. The last move backed by the US (letting the Ethiopians ousting the islamist government) was indeed a very bad move.

[Peter]

It raises the question of whether or not it is right to interfere in the running of another country, if that country has lost control or is abusing its citizens.  I would say military interference should only occur as a last resort.  There are other things which could be tried, like incentives, the offer of an international police force temporarily stationed in that country, that sort of thing.  The world just seems to be sitting by while thousands of Somalis get murdered.  Another case of the world forgetting about African countries.

[Anakin12]

It would be nice to live in such a world where politicians are noble, laws are followed and people in power want to negotiate.  As we live on planet Earth, I suggest that we keep realistic practical options open.  Military intervention is the only real course of action here.  As you bleeding hearts are fighting over the most ethical way to approach the situation, years and years of fighting are leaving thousands dead.  Enough time has been wasted, we need action now. 
As an example of the softly softly approach, look what good that did us in Sudan.  The leader continues with his genocide campaign and the world talks about stopping him.  What a joke.  Your lefty policies are killing many innocent people, wake up and smell the roses.

[Brandon]

Well still waiting for an answer to my question from umpteen posts ago when I asked when has that sort of foreign intervention actually helped? And don't even try to tell me Iraq is happy sunshine land now.

Theres no way were going to get militarily involved anyway. Brown has an election within a year and is unpopular enough as it is.

The problem is if foreign countries inter it tends to just end up screwing things up. However if no one interfers then these sort of nation with no power structure and no marketable export seem to just get worse (see DR Congo, Chad, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe and so on.)

Whats the solution?

I'll be fudged if I know.

[Mary]

The solution is a new scheme called 'Adopt a Somali Pirate'.  The theory is that if we all unofficially adopt a pirate and send them clothes, food and toys, then they will no longer need to engage in piracy.  I already have my bundle of goodies all parceled up.  It contains a baseball cap, two tins of Spam, a Rubix Cube, two AK-47 magazine clips and a bottle of Dr.Peppers.  I hope it gets through customs in the post... I think it might be illegal to send Spam.  If anyone else wishes to adopt a pirate then let me know.

[Peter]

Yesterday on the news Somalia leaders criticised the presence of international warships and said that foreign countries would do better to invest in Somali on-the-ground solutions. I wholeheartedly agree. Less fire-fighting and more tackling the cause of the blaze.